AWCheney’s Forum On Immigration

Border Security?

There is little argument in the illegal alien debate that our borders are extremely porous, and there is well-founded concern that physical barriers are highly ineffective (watch what is happening in the background during the President’s interview):

The completion of the NASCO (North American SuperCorridor Coalition) superhighway will actually extend the “border” through the heart of the United States. If we are unable to control the borders we already have, how are we possibly going to secure this superhighway?

What’s the answer? Is it stronger enforcement of immigration laws, particularly those which affect the economic standards of illegal aliens in this country, thus hoping to encourage attrition and discourage others from coming? Is it stronger laws and penalties for violations of immigration laws, as they have in Mexico? Is it stronger enforcement and increased penalties against employers of illegal aliens? Is it a combination of these, or something else that might be the answer? Or do we just open up the borders and throw up our hands in resignation (North American Union)?

Anybody have any suggestions?

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July 1, 2008 3:32 am - Posted by | Illegal Immigration | , , , , ,

32 Comments »

  1. Obama give a great speech on patriotism. As an unabashed patriot that served my country in time of war, as did my Father, my two brothers, and my son I though it was a very moving speech.

    Unfortunately, Obama actions & life contradict and refutes his words! So I cannot vote for Obama. However, I cannot vote for McCain that has traded on being an prisoner of war his whole career without ever accomplishing one thing for the betterment of this Nation. Indeed, based on his speeches and record McCain,s intelligence, ability, and temperament seems to be on par or below the current occupant of the WH.

    I am not sure this Nation could survive four years of his presidency! I think we will find out if we can survive four years of Obama. In both cases, I think both will accelerate & hasten the demise and eventual down fail of this great Nation. I say this because both are supporting Amnesty for the Millions of Uneducated Aliens that are pouring across our open Borders. History has shown that Great Nation perish from internal rot and not from outside forces. All nations immigration policies are by design and intent suppose to promote and enhance the welfare of the Nations citizens and the future of the Nation.

    Clearly giving Amnesty to 20 to 30 million of uneducated peons and criminals that are rejects from third world countries alone with the chain immigration of their relatives and their relatives that owe their loyally to their home countries and refuse to assimilate, is not in the best interest of the Nation or its Citizens! Citizens that have immigrated here legally, obeyed the laws, paid their taxes and fought our wars and built the greatest nation on earth.

    While both would have us believe it is their great compassion is the reason they support Amnesty, it is in fact pandering for votes irregardless of the great harm and irreparable damage they will to do this Nation. Both refuse to abide by our Constitution against invasion, refuse to enforce our laws, and refuse to honor their oath of office!

    Amnesty on this scale of uneducated, educating hating, fast breeding, welfare loving, criminally inclined aliens will eventually turn this Nation into the same type of society the invaders have created and built and are now fleeing from in their own countries!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 1, 2008 8:36 pm | Reply

  2. Lets face the facts, both Juan McAmnesty and Obama love this country and its citizens so much that both cannot wait to give Amnesty to 20 to 30 millions invading, American hating, Illegal Aliens and with chain immigration their relatives and their relatives in an never ending chain. While both ignore our Constitution against invasion and the rule of Law. The invaders have loyally to other Nations, refuse to assimilate & have proven in hundreds of years in their society that their primary ability is to breed, produce, foster, and create an third world society of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, and Misery. If anyone doubts that point of view just look at the Border cities they are as different as night and day. The land is the same the only thing different is the culture of the people living on the land.

    Comment by Black Saint | July 1, 2008 8:38 pm | Reply

  3. Welcome Black Saint! and I also want to thank you for opening up this issue thread with the first comment. I was beginning to wonder if my posts were showing up!

    There is one thing that I would ask, however. You might want to go ahead and read the rules to the right of the posts. Although I doubt that John McCain will ever comment on, or even read, this blog, I would like folks to avoid improper nick-names for anyone…it’s just not polite, in my opinion. I’d appreciate it because, I guess, I’m a little sensitive on the subject as I’ve been subjected to that myself in the past, as I know others have been as well.

    Anyway, since you’ve been kind enough to get my first issue thread started, and since Sen. McCain is unlikely to see it anyway, I’m not going to treat it as a “first violation” (see “Consequences” to the right). All I ask around here is that people respect others as much they would like to be respected themselves.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 1, 2008 10:57 pm | Reply

  4. Now that we have that out of the way, let’s see if we can’t get a discussion going here.

    As I said in my comment over at BVBL in response to “freedom,” I firmly believe that all this talk about securing the borders, whether it comes from McCain, Obama, or even President Bush, is purely “slight of hand” rhetoric on which they have no intention to follow through, although it seems to me that Obama has been merely side-stepping the issue altogether. In one way, that’s to his credit…at least he IS trying to avoid outright lying about it. On the other hand, he must think that the electorate is pretty stupid if he believes that the voters won’t figure out exactly where he stands on the issue.

    With regard to your second comment, although your terminology is a bit harsh, there is a certain truth to it. The following link is to a video which I intend to use in a post at some time, but I think anyone who might believe that the open borders lobby is totally benign should find it very interesting:

    Comment by AWCheney | July 1, 2008 11:27 pm | Reply

  5. “Amnesty on this scale of uneducated, educating hating, fast breeding, welfare loving, criminally inclined aliens will eventually turn this Nation into the same type of society the invaders have created and built and are now fleeing from in their own countries!”

    Black Saint, What’s up with all that ANGER?

    Do you really believe their intention is to make America a third world country? What about coming here for a better life for themselves and their families? Living the American Dream, owning a home and a business? Giving their children something more than what they have had, etc…? Don’t you believe those are basic human desires, or are those desires reserved for those that have a current immigration status?

    Comment by SmartyMarty | July 2, 2008 1:17 am | Reply

  6. Smartmarty

    If Latinos can pour across our Borders illegally then there are millions probably billions from China, Africa, India etc. that should be allowed to invade this Nation also. If they want to immigrate to this country then they should do so legally else everyone should be allowed to invade this country wave their flags and demand their right while committing numerous felonies & crimes!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 2, 2008 10:29 am | Reply

  7. Smartmarty, you should also look at school drop rate, crime rate, births out of wed lock rate, education level, welfare rate etc. to see if those are the type of citizens that enhance and help built a nation or are they the type that are a burden on current citizens of the USA! Obviously, this Nation cannot take in everyone that wants to come here when we already take in more legal immigrants than all of the rest of the world combined! To do so would mean our population would exceed China,s until it corrected because we were so poor, congested, crime ridden that one know would want to immigrate here.

    Comment by Black Saint | July 2, 2008 10:49 am | Reply

  8. We have an arrogant, incompetent, illiterate, and inept fool in the White House, a demoralized and decimated military, plundered treasury, trashed world standing, trampled rule of Law and Constitution. While the nation is sinking under debt and the market is in a free fall while an tidal wave of Uneducated Illegal Aliens are waving the Mexican flag, demanding their rights, while sucking at the trough of Public Welfare, as they Kill, Rob, and Rape thousands of American Citizens each year. Both Barack S. Obama & McCain are pandering for the Latino vote by promising Amnesty for the 20 to 30 million of the invading criminals, plus with chain immigration to all their relatives & their relatives in an never ending chain!

    We as a nation can survive fools in our White House. What we CANNOT survive is fools both in our Congress and white house like McCain & Obama.. Each promising a new American, rebuilding the middle class and taking care of the poor. But what they refuse to acknowledge or recognize is no single Nation or people is rich enough to lift the 100,s of millions of poor out of poverty. In others words American & American taxpayers cannot bear the cost of becoming the welfare state for Mexico and Latin American. To attempt to do so will only reduce all Americans to poverty equaling what the uneducated invaders have build and are fleeing from in their home countries. The poor and criminals pouring across our Borders have an average of an eight grade education with is about on the level of an third grade here. Each person with less than a high education is a net cost of 20k per year for American taxpayers. So the displaced compassion, flawed logic, or just pandering for votes, endorsed by Obama & McCain is deeply flawed. Failure to close our border or to give Amnesty to the 12 to 30 millions of Illegal Aliens in this country will in the long run, with the Chain Immigration result in adding 100,s of millions poor citizens to our welfare rolls. Their high school drop out rates exceed 50 percent with a high crime rate and a very high illegitimate birth rate, this is very combination that keeps Mexico & Latin American a cesspool of crime, corruption, poverty & misery!

    Maybe the results is what the multinational companies and the rich dream of, an congested, polluted, third world Nation full of poor labors like China, India, Mexico, but I do not believe it is the future most Americans aspire to for their children and grand children!

    My country, a potential benefactor and beacon for all the world – is headed right off a cliff and to an third world status!

    In my view – this has all come to pass because the Politicians, the elected and sworn stewards of this country, both Republicans & Democrats have allowed it to happen. Surely they should have known better when they build bridges to nowhere, when they wasted 100,s of billion in pork and sold their votes to the highest bidder.…when they refused to abide by the Constitution against invasion or enforce the very laws they passed, they have disgraced and dishonored their oath of office and brought shame upon our Nation. One way this Nation can start to recover is for the lot of them to be gone from those hallowed halls of Congress and the White House, because most of them have become a house of party-bound Prostitutes paid by the special interests, swirling and partying, amidst the rubble of their own malfeasance – taking this Nation right down in the gutter with them.

    If the Politicians with the Citizens support, decide they must do more for the worlds poor then they must find a way like an Marshall plan for Latin American. What they must not be allowed to do, though flawed logic, false compassion, or by criminal intent is to turn this Nation into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, and Misery by continuing the open borders policy and Amnesty for the millions of uneducated peons and criminals pouring across our borders.

    As a concerned American that served my Country in time of War as did my Father, my two brothers and my son. I am appalled and very angry at what self severing, stupid/corrupt politicians have done to my country!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 2, 2008 1:23 pm | Reply

  9. Americans are not serfs or peons, in spite of what many politicians think, the spirit of 1776 that made the Nation great, the fire & light of freedom can still come back! When the gap keep growing between the rich and the rest, when the lies the greed and corruption of our corporations & politicians exceeds all boundaries or restraint, when the rich grow richer and all the rest poorer, then politicians better be aware! When our jobs go overseas and and millions of peons surge across our open borders to take the rest, when our culture is trashed to serve the elite, when our taxes are used to provide the welfare for the invading hordes, the slaves laboring for the rich, and when our Constitution and Laws are trashed & ignored, you do so at your peril. Revolutions are born when the drudgery and delusions of life aches from serving the grandeur of the rich. All is required is an charismatic leader throwing gas on the fires of peoples discontent and all politicians will will be swept away and pay the price for their deceit!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 2, 2008 1:49 pm | Reply

  10. Hello, AWC. That video cracked me up! The idea of being able to construct and enforce miles of wall seems unachievable to me. The best barrier we can put up is to stop giving preferential treatment to our border neighbors, dry up the freebies of education, health care and low-wage jobs, and do away with this idea that a child born in this country to illegal-immigrant parents is an automatic citizen. I think that the 12-20 million illegals now here will in all likelihood get some kind of amnesty, judging from the way the political winds are blowing. But if we can actually fine the companies who profit from cheap labor and take away all of the taxpayer-paid bennies–in other words, enforce our existing laws–we might go a long way towards true reform.

    Comment by Emma | July 2, 2008 9:43 pm | Reply

  11. Glad you made it over here Emma! I agree with you that we’ve got to go after the businesses that hire illegal aliens. They’re not only enabling those who are already here, they’re providing the incentive for more to come over the border every day. In that, the illegal aliens are not really to blame…any of us would probably at least consider doing the same. It’s the laws that they routinely break in order to remain which must be strongly enforced and adjudicated.

    As a matter of fact, given how easily it can ruin a person’s life and financial future, if they have their identity stolen for instance, I believe that the crime of identity theft should become a felony crime for ALL perpetrators, at least at the level of grand theft.

    I also believe that ICE is handling these workplace raids all wrong. They should be taking a page out of the FBI RICO enforcement handbook and sending the accountants in first under the guise of an IRS audit to confirm the presence of illegal aliens, false identities and/or forged documentation, as well as gathering the evidence on the employer (whether payroll taxes are being paid, workman’s compensation, unemployment insurance, legal overtime, etc.). This would go a long way to preventing mistakes from being made which lead to our citizens and legal residents being unfairly treated.

    In terms of amnesty, I don’t believe that it should even be considered until the flow of illegal aliens is stemmed through enforcement and stronger laws (which would likely be more effective than physical barriers), as well as security along the border. Once achieved, I believe that amnesty should follow the same guidelines that legal immigrants must follow: Health certifications; criminal checks; proof of employment, etc., with all the attendant fees, as well as proof that they have been in this country for at least five years already before they’re even issued a “green card” (none of them should be jumping in line ahead of those who have applied for residency legally).

    Just a few ideas…I’ve got more.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 3, 2008 4:26 am | Reply

  12. More and More this Nation is looking like Mexico as Mexico purges its Population of Common criminals & uneducated Peons and sends them by the millions surging across our borders for welfare and jobs with tax payer benefits of 20k per year for each, without being taxed on their income, their employers get nearly slave labor plus no withholding or benefits so it is a great deal for everyone but Citizens and the future of this Nation. But the Democrat Politicians will have 100,s of millions new welfare voters to further their Socialist Agenda, the Republican Politicians an unlimited supply of nearly slave labor for their Pay Masters in the Corporations and Businesses.

    The only losers are current American Citizens & their progeny and either Party cares about them! But hey, being PC and the latest Washington and Hollywood scandals are more important than leaving our children an Corrupt, Crime infested, Poverty stricken Nation, so as the invading Latinos establish beach heads from coast to coast creating there Mexican environment of Crime, Corruption, Poverty and Misery we sit by fat, dumb and happy.

    Comment by Black Saint | July 3, 2008 7:49 am | Reply

  13. That video was funny, obviously doctored but hilarious!

    Comment by hello | July 3, 2008 12:27 pm | Reply

  14. Welcome hello!

    This may well not be a doctored video. I’ve done some research on that interview and TRUEVEO, which is the source of this posting on YouTube, is merely a web video search engine. Further research found this:

    http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/2006_05.html
    May 29, 2006
    “Bush missed a perfect border photo-op

    This post and this one featured pictures of Bush’s big photo-op on the border, featuring the leader of the free world tooling around in a dune buggy.

    However funny/sad those pictures might be, they can’t match this video. It’s a CBS Early Show interview Bill Plante did with Bush during his big trip. Behind Bush, you can see three people jumping the border fence. (I can’t tell for certain, but the laughter at the end sounds like it was then replayed on the Tonight Show or a similar program.)

    If Bill Plante had been paying attention he could have encouraged Bush to rush over and welcome his “amigos” to America, but sadly that photo opportunity was missed.

    Posted to Immigration at 02:19 PM | Comments (6)”

    This was the only place, after hours of searching, that I was able to find a direct link to the original video, which had been removed. It would make sense if it was an old news video…they wouldn’t archive it for two years, I would imagine, because of bandwidth space. Also, as “Lonewacko” points out, the laughter in the clip could well be because it came from being played and recorded on an audience show, although I believe that it was actually from the “Early Show.” They may well have an audience…or the show support crew merely cracked up.

    Irregardless, whether doctored or not, it really makes an excellent point.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 3, 2008 9:31 pm | Reply

  15. The only reason why it didn’t look real to me is if you look between the two trucks to the left of Bush at about the 27th second it looks off a bit when the guys come into the picture. Plus I don’t think that the guys jumping over the fence could make it all the way from the fence to the trucks in 4 or 5 seconds. But if it is real it just goes to show how bad the problem is.

    Comment by hello | July 3, 2008 10:42 pm | Reply

  16. Actually, the only thing that gave me any concern as to whether it was real or not was…where was the Secret Service while these guys were getting that close? But then I remembered my Washington days and the time that I chaperoned a group of Teenage Republicans who had been invited to a meeting in the Rose Garden of the White House to meet with President Ford.

    After all the SSN’s had been approved, a number of the teens either begged off or had conflicts arise where they were unable to attend, but there was a number of other teens from the same group that decided (and had convinced their parents) that they wanted to attend, but it was too late to get their information to the Secret Service. I honestly don’t remember whose idea it was (it may have even been mine…I was always rather fearless), but it was decided to give the credentials that had been approved to the others who were actually able to go. When we all arrived at the White House, the Secret Service requested identification from each of them to confirm their credentials so the kids simply told them they didn’t have anything with them. When it was rightly questioned, we merely pointed out that they were kids, and that we had not been informed to make sure that they brought identification along. They were ushered in with no further ado, and I had a bunch of kids who had to remember, for the rest of the day (including a Congressional and State Department Reception), that their names were those on their name tags.

    The only tense moment we had was with an adult with the group (his daughter had begged for him to be able to go) who was a naturalized citizen AND with the CIA. We didn’t find out, until we were actually at the White House, that his CIA credentials presented an even greater security problem…he told us that it was forbidden for CIA operatives or analysts to enter the White House without specific permission. Being an adult, it would be assumed (I thought) that he would have identification on him and that the jig was up. As it turned out, they accepted his explanation that he had inadvertently left his wallet behind because he wasn’t driving…go figure. Needless to say, from that moment on, I was never seriously impressed with the quality of Secret Service personnel and security, therefore, I discounted that as one reason to believe that the video may have been doctored.

    Oh yes, I almost forgot…the CIA employee spent the rest of the day with the identity of a high school sophomore.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 3, 2008 11:38 pm | Reply

  17. AWC –
    Congratulations on starting your blog. I wish you all of the best!
    Black Saint – AGREE!

    Comment by manassascityresident | July 6, 2008 3:44 pm | Reply

  18. Black Saint, I agree with AW you should focus your concerns and language on the truth of the “issues”, rather than as a means to vent your emotions toward a specific “ethnic” group. That will get you nowhere with any respect from people who rise above that in debate, especially here on AW’s blog. She is trying to rise above the name-calling and labeling and arrive at the real reasons for the problems and the really critical solutions we need to “fix” those “illegal” immigration problems the negligence of our political leaders created. The citizens have realized they must fix it as the federal government will not and cannot.

    Only grass roots political movements can do this.

    I look at the issues myself and realize the “biggest” threat to us all is NOT JUST an ethnic group “replacement” or cultural “replacement” which justifiably angers those who see their own cultures, ways of life, and society threatened, (JUST IN THE SAME WAY THE 500 different cultures and political nations of the NORTH AMERICAN INDIANS WERE UPSET AND EVENTUALLY FOUGHT EUROPEAN “illegal” Immigration.

    But more-so in modern times the biggest threat to any nation today is “uncontrolled population growth”.

    Every research paper or bit of evidence I gather points out that “un-controlled growth” historically destroys political systems, de-stabilizes prosperous regional economies, and destroys habitat and eco-systems at an alarming rate.

    The number one problem with “uncontrolled growth” is energy use and burning of fossil fuels (living on borrowed time), as the nation isolates itself from self-sufficiency, using only natural and stable “current solar energy usage” and instead goes into global debt to use “past” solar energy (coal, oil, gas) with devasating consequences in the next 50 years. In this new expansive fight for energy resources, the nation that relies entirely on current solar energy only, and “controls” its population growth (retaining and inviting the smartest segment of the population possible), will emerge in the next 50 years as the most stable and wealthy of the global economies. To allow “un-controlled growth” of “illegal” aliens from any part of the world, especially those partts of the world that will soon have “energy refuges” numbering in the 200-500 millions, will start resource wars un-paralled in history.

    As the earth’s temperature rises to an average change of 1-2 degrees (annual average), the world’s deserts will increase, grassland will become desert, agricultural regions will move both north and east, the American southwest, and central plains will be unable to support the number of people it currently has, and these people will become “illegal” and legal refugees from local economy collapse due to rising temperatures and falling water resources. This WILL happen especially if we cannot get rid of burning fossil fuels and dumping carbon into the atmosphere in the next 10 years, or the consequence in temperature and climate shift will become ir-reversable. Continuing to sanction “uncontrolled” illegal alien growth will only hasten this ultimate US demise in the next 15 years, as the current grasslands change to desert (as they already are), Western glaciers and snow caps providing water recede (as they already are), fires increase (as they already are) and species go extinct at a rapid and alarming rate (as they already are) This has an economic effect and a survival effect for the rest of the 200 million people living on the East coast (who will see major cities flooded by huricanes more frequently, some category 6, and flooded eventually to about 3 meters due to greenland and polar caps melting entirely over the summer (greenland alone can change the sea level by 2 meters, and possibly shut off the gulf stream. The more people we allow in without control, the more people will burn fossil fuels that they are not currently burning to such extremes in their existing countries (more agrarian “current” solar based economies). (US wealth burns 60% of the entire world’s “ancient-borrowed” fossil fuel, and we have 70-80% of the wealth.) As our population hits 10-15 billion and the water in south and central regions of the US, Africa, Mediterranian, and China, Brazil (the Amazon dissapears) and these regions collapse and fail economically, the “dust bowl” resulting will force desperate, hungry, people eastward and northward, creating “border wars” between the US and Canada,Russia and China, Africa and Northern Europe, whose wealthy and agriculturally prospering regions will try to preserve their existing limited fuel and water resources from an invasion of some 2 billion people into these “cooler” regions. This can all happen in 15-20 years and HAS happened just as rapidly in the Earth’s paleological history. We just never had any humans who had to “adapt” or “die” as large extinctions occurred 6 times in the Earth’s 4.5 billion year history due to rapid climatic changes.

    IF we can reduce our current US 360 million population to 200 million, and the global 6 billion population to 800 million, we can all live in wealth and endure this inevitable change we are creating by burning fossil fuel. If we can only limit the global population to 9 billion, we can all still live (not die), but will still live in poverty. Poverty creates wars over resources and wealth, so the best way to prevent such war is to significantly reduce “un-controlled” growth. That means for our own survival, we have to remove the existing 20-30 million “illegal” aliens from this nation and prevent any growth over 500,000 per year, in the next 10-15 years to limit the population to 800 million by 2020, or we WILL all live in poverty, and in only half a country that has not yet turned to desert. The “new” and prosperous agricultural growth will be in Canada, Siberia, Britan, Korea, Japan, Norway, Sweden, Argentina and Greenland, which will emerge as the “new” wealthy nations, as water, fuel, and crop producers if they can control “un-controlled illegal” immigration problems they currently have (as they are currently doing with local law enforcement).

    Comment by michael | July 6, 2008 4:46 pm | Reply

  19. Most of you do not know it but you can now grow “olive” trees in England, something you could not do 10 years ago. This is how rapidly the climate has changed, and you have not noticed it. If I can remember the numbers right (some of you can correct if you wish to more accurate numbers), we are at some 350 ppm or so in Carbon concentration in the upper atmosphere (up from some 250ppm in the past 10 years or so), the “tipping” point for “melting greenland” is around 420 ppm or so. We can reach this 420 ppm tipping point in 10-15 years easily if China and India increase fuel burning to US carbon burning levels (burned just to maintain our current standard of living), and espeically if WE do not decrease significantly our carbon burning of fossil fuels. Our very economic and possibly species survival rests not in producing more crude oil and making EXON/MOBILE and Oil Futures traders richer, but in converting in less than 10 years to energy sources that do not use fossil fuel.

    Comment by michael | July 6, 2008 5:03 pm | Reply

  20. That video is hysterical! It can’t possibly be real. Along with the president there would have been many secret service and police and cameras and flashing lights. I hardly think that people would be jumping the wall with all that commotion.

    I don’t know what show that was from, but Jay Leno has had funny bits about the topic, including doctored clips.

    Comment by Firedancer | July 6, 2008 11:17 pm | Reply

  21. Firedancer, read my comment, #16. 🙂

    Comment by AWCheney | July 6, 2008 11:20 pm | Reply

  22. Also my comment, #14.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 6, 2008 11:24 pm | Reply

  23. To be honest, what I suspect is that the fence-jumpers are real (they most likely ran in the opposite direction when they saw what was going on) but that the two “runners” behind the border patrol car were faked to resemble two of those who jumped the fence. Any way you look at it, it does offer an amusing take on exactly what happens on the border, right under the noses of the officials, all the time:

    Comment by AWCheney | July 6, 2008 11:39 pm | Reply

  24. You may already know about this video presentation, but to me it is the most effective one I’ve seen to put this whole illegal alien argument into perspective.

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5871651411393887069

    Putting all “turning the US into another 3rd world nation” arguments aside, our nation cannot sustain this level of growth and retain her prosperity.

    Comment by Great Scott! | July 9, 2008 7:21 pm | Reply

  25. This weekend, another border agent was killed by an illegal alien from Mexico. The illegal alien population and their supporters (Mexican Government, Council La Raza and Mexicans without Borders) rejoiced in his death.

    Just as our military members live every day in Iraq and Afghanistan, our border agents are fired upon, shot, stabbed, stoned and run over every day along the Mexican border but, unlike their Armed service brothers abroad, our Border Agents cannot shoot back at their armed assailants. Where are their individual rights to basic survival? Will opening the border protect them more?

    You see illegal alien sympathizers on these comments boards – you know their names and their corrupt opinions. They seek to abuse US laws and the US Constitution for sake of their own gains and for those illegal alien criminals who have usurped the laws of this land and the rights of American citizens.
    You hear these sympathizers say the rights, but not the laws, of the US constitution apply equally to all illegal aliens, the illegals that kill 12000 Americans every year. Thus, they and the illegals have their self proclaimed right not to show ID cards when asked about residence. They say they do not have to prove their citizenship to vote, the right for which Americans worldwide shed their blood.

    The illegals and their sympathizers refuse to abide with such a simple American courtesy because it is “against their individual rights.” Is it as difficult to patrol the border or fight the Taliban?

    They say the illegals have the right to stone border agents, to steal American identities, to forge papers and to rob and kill Americans and they have the rights to equal protection under our nation’s laws if only to further enable them to violate those laws. The sympathizers say the illegals have the right to use our laws against us to sue us for defending our nation.

    This criminal mentality and behavior of the illegal alien population has converted the US into a living anarchy. How much of a hardship is it to produce an ID to proudly prove your American citizenship when our troops and border agents die every day to preserve our laws and freedoms? What American soldier or border agent would not proudly show you his or her identification card in order to vote?

    – Your “value” is defined by what you can do for them;

    Each day of your life, you encounter attitudes, behavior and ways of thinking that are annoying and selfish. Usually, however, these arrogant people have a form of checks and balances to keep them within normal bounds. Those norms are institutionalized by cultural values and societal laws.

    What few people realize is that these checks and balances – the rules of civil behavior and law – are missing in the criminal, the violent, and the illegal alien. In the absence of the counterbalancing influence of law enforcement, illegal behaviors flourish and grow, just as illegal immigration did after it was rewarded with amnesty in 1986, enabling the criminal element to continue to manipulate the rule of law until it suits their criminal end and the end of civil rule.

    Is it too late for America? Have Council La Raza, the Mexican Government, political panderers, liberal sympathizers, corporate elitists and the armies of foreign national illegal invaders already converted this nation into anarchy where civilized norms, the rule of law and rights of citizens have no meaning? Can America rescue itself?

    Comment by Black Saint | July 12, 2008 7:13 am | Reply

  26. It would be very interesting to see what impact the Sub-Prime loans the invading horde of Illegal Aliens had on the defaults and housing crises that started the unraveling of the whole Economy! I expect, just like our Declining standard of living, Bankrupt Hospitals, Failing Schools, Welfare costs, Identity fraud, Crowded prisons, Destroyed communities, Exploding population, Trashed Constitution and the Rule of Law, they played a big part or at the very least, added lots of fuel to the fire.

    Comment by Black Saint | July 15, 2008 12:34 pm | Reply

  27. Ronald Reagan did indeed start many of the Problems plaguing the USA now. He signed the 1986 Amnesty engineered by the socialist, drunk and killer Ed Kennedy. Thereby, increasing the welfare and crime rate more than any single bill ever passed, (with the possible exception of probation on crime) while encouraged millions of uneducated peons & criminals to pour across our borders until now we have suffered the largest invasion in the history of the world. The 20 to 40 millions of uneducated illegal aliens currently residing in the USA is turning the USA into the largest Socialist Nation in the world. Each person with less than a high school education, Legal or Illegal is an net drain of 20k per year on the backs of American tax payers. The businesses employing the Illegal Aliens are in effect enjoying nearly slave labor while pocketing the profits and passing on the actual cost to American tax payers of not only his employees but all of their family members residing with them.

    The cost for their Medical, Schooling and Welfare makes them the most expensive manual labor in the world. Now we have both Presidential candidates pandering for the Latino vote and promising Amnesty which will compound the problems allowing them to access even more social benefits!

    Robert Rector at the Heritage Foundation has done the systematic accounting on all this. A typical household headed by a low-skilled illegal alien is a net drain of about $20k/year for the rest of us, year after year. (Low-skilled Americans are a similar burden, but they’re part of the national family, not gate crashers from other societies.)

    The globalist, multiculturalism, open border advocates, liberals & businesses profiting from Illegal Aliens argument that they the Illegal Aliens pay tons of taxes, sure they all pay real estate taxes (in rent) and sales taxes (most states). Those working on the books approximately 35 % using stolen Social Security numbers or other fraudulent documents pay FICA and, perhaps, income taxes. But they’re mostly ill-educated and low-skilled and pay very low taxes connected to their working. In fact, most claim the Earned Income Tax Credit, i.e. negative income tax! Of course, the remaining 65% of the Illegal Aliens working off the books typical work for cash and pay nothing except real estate taxes (in rent) and sales taxes (most states).

    The Latinos that make up the largest group of the Illegal Aliens population has the largest school drop out rate of any ethnic group in the USA, second highest illegitimate birth rate, second highest crime rate, highest birth rate and recent studies confirm they start dropping out of school, using drugs, having illegitimate kids, joining gangs at an early age then any ethnic group in the USA. This behavior continues even after citizenship and down through each generation. This culture characteristic explains why Mexico and Latino American, while having more natural resources and moderate climate than most First World Nations are still mired in an Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty and Misery!

    Amnestying them & with chain immigration for their relatives and their relatives in an never ending chain will add 100,s of millions, a vast underclass of uneducated citizens that will make it impossible to continue the social network for American tax payers. When that occurs you will see riots, fires and pillage from coast to coast that will make the recent rioting in French by immigrants look like an picnic!

    A recent study by the International Monetary fund confirms that remittance (transfer of money by immigrants to their home country) not only is bad for the remittance country but for the country receiving the money. It allows the home country (normally third world nations) from addressing the problems and improving their citizens standard of living and continue the same policies and keeping in power the corrupt government without facing an revolution and demands from citizens for improvements. So, our open borders and amnesty for the invading horde of illegal aliens is not only bad policy for this Nation but perpetrates the poverty and misery in the home countries.

    Mexico for many years has encouraging their Criminals and Uneducated peons to pour across our borders and send money home while retaining loyally to the home country (illegal aliens are treated as heroes in their home countries) Mexico,s primary economic policy is to send their poverty to the USA for American tax payers to support while having one of the most punitive and enforced immigration policies in the world!

    We are now seeing that the Illegal Aliens can not only impact this Nation but the global economy as well. Many of the Sub-Prime loans & defaults were to Illegal Aliens that started the unraveling of the Global Economy! Just like our Declining standard of living, Bankrupt Hospitals, Failing Schools, Welfare costs, Identity fraud, Welfare fraud, Voter fraud, Gangs, Crime, Crowded prisons, Destroyed communities, Exploding population, Congested roads, Pollution, Insurance costs, Balance of payments, (Imported oil etc. to support the illegal alien population) Trashed Constitution and the Rule of Law, they have spread their negative impact across the world.

    It looks like with American heading into a very bad recession or more likely an depression, The 100,s of billions the Illegal Aliens are costing American tax payers for free medical, schooling, welfare etc. needs to be spend on American citizens, not invading criminals from third world counties, plus the 40 to 50 billions remittance by Illegal aliens needs to stay in the country to simulate this economy and force Mexico to address their problems!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 17, 2008 10:36 am | Reply

  28. Black Saint, you are wrong about Ronald Reagan…he may have signed it, but even that signature was orchestrated by then Vice President Bush. Bush had a great deal of control in the Reagan Administration through Jim Baker. It’s a long and involved story, but I remember those years well.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 17, 2008 12:48 pm | Reply

  29. There is an old saying the Buck stops here! Reagan signed a bad bill and the results of that amnesty is what got us in the terrible shape we are in now. Reagan even said signing that bill was a big mistake!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 18, 2008 11:01 am | Reply

  30. That’s right Black Saint…because Reagan was an honorable man. Just as he had nothing to do with the Iran-Contra affair but, when he spoke to the American public, stated that it happened on his watch so it was ultimately his responsibility.

    As I said, the Reagan/Bush years are, in itself, a long and involved story. If we ever meet, I’ll tell you about it some time.

    Comment by AWCheney | July 18, 2008 11:23 am | Reply

  31. I look forward to AWCheney But you should know I thought Reagan was an great President. He if nothing else brought this Nation back from self doubt and made us believe in American again. I wish there was an Politician currently that could make be believe again. But I really believe the globalist have won and we are headed down the road to an eventual third rate Nation!

    All Nations immigration policies are by design & intent suppose to enhance the Nation and its Citizens that immigrated legally, obeyed the laws, paid the taxes, fought the wars and built the nation! Clearly for the reasons numerated above Amnesty for the invading horde of uneducated peons and criminals does not meet this criteria. They certainly must not be used to further the political careens and lust for power of Corrupt/Pandering Politicians like Obama & McCain!

    Comment by Black Saint | July 18, 2008 1:21 pm | Reply

  32. Black Saint, go to http://www.bobbarr2008.com and get informed. Perhaps neither of the two ‘twin’ parties should get another shot at the White House. The revolution is on. This is the change whose time has come. Rebuilding and restructuring the systems in place, and demolition of the political empires is where it begins!

    Comment by linda | July 19, 2008 8:49 am | Reply


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